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Lighting Relay Panels

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    AdminDavid Robison (President, Design Master Software) shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    13 comments

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      • Solomon Williams commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Add a field to fixtures that indicates the dimming methods that are available on that fixture (0-10V, forward phase, reverse phase, three-wire, DALI, etc.). These would need to be checkboxes, as many fixtures are capable of multiple dimming types. Similarly, add a field to switches that indicate the dimming output method (or methods) that the switch can produce. When a fixture is added to a switch group, verify that the dimming is compatible. Add 'low-voltage circuiting' in addition to line voltage circuiting, with a separate layer control.

      • rpennell commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Since lighting control manufacturers still have different means and methods of connecting lighting controls to the fixtures, and adding all of the lighting control wiring to a drawing would complicate the drawing, we use schedules and standard generic details to show the lighting controls for each room. Each room is then part of a schedule that shows the requirements based on Title 24, WAC 51-11, etc, and includes a reference to the wiring detail. It would be nice if:
        1. The control schedule could be created in DM and insertable with DM; and
        2. The control schedule could be populated with data from the room definitions list

      • AdminDavid Robison (President, Design Master Software) commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Title 24 also says that lighting may have to be controlled depending on the type, wattage, and location of that lighting. Most times it means that we're using 0-10v dimming on LED fixtures. In those instances we draw loops connecting those fixtures with a standard ground-neutral-hot-switched combination, but we'll also include a tick mark that shows we intend to carry low-voltage wiring to that fixture so we can dim the lamps to comply with T24. This helps our pre-fab crew when they look at the drawings to identify what type and quantity of MC cable they'll need for each project.

      • Tim Linenbrink commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        The intention of adding a lighting control panel (LCP) type to design master would be to communicate some basic information on the lighting controls to plan reviewers, contractors, etc.

        It would not be pragmatic to accommodate all the functionality that can be found in commercial LCPs. Any representation would be very basic, there would be no control associated with the actual lighting. There would be no load calculations for the LCP as those are already in the panel schedule.

        It would be convenient if there was a warning on a relay being over loaded but that would not be a deal-killer.

        It would be helpful, but not necessary, to have the panel accommodate the nominal number of pole positions commercially available, e.g., 8-poles, 16-poles, etc. Again, not a deal killer.

        Functionality it would be necessary to create a new “panel type” with the data elements listed below. The existing database schema accommodates most of these. It be necessary to create a method for associating lighting circuits with the relays in the LCP.

        Any “higher level” lighting controls would have to be handled by the user in the associated notes field.

        Attributes:

        By enlarge the existing DM database schema would support the elements needed to represent the LCP:

        In the Panel Table
        Attribute DM Table/Field
        1) Voltage Rating tblPanel.VOLTS
        2) Panel Description tblPanel.sDescription
        3) SCCR tbpPanel.AIC
        4) NEMA Rating tbPanel.??? ( new field or use NOTE1 or NOTE2)
        5) Mounting tlbPanel.MOUNTG
        6) Voltage Barrier – Y/N tbPanel.??? ( new field or use NOTE1 or NOTE2)

        In the Circuits table:

        Attribute DM Table/Field
        1) Relay Number tblCircuit.iCirNum
        2) Circuit Description tblCircuit.CIR_DESC_1
        3) Relay Type tblCircuit.s_CIR_DESC_FIXED_1
        (e.g., Normally Closed, Normally Open)
        4) Number of Poles tblCircuit.iPoles
        (or create a relay type in tblBreaker)
        5) Relay Rating tblCircuit.VOLTS
        6) Voltage tblCircuit.VOLTS
        7) Circuit Controlled tblCircuit.HR_CIR
        8) Control Note tblCircuit.??? (new text field possibly) to identify if a circuit is time clock or photocell controlled, has an override switch hours of operation, etc.

      • Bryant commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Just thought of another idea that might help get some of this going: Right now you have to "connect device to a switch group" before you can group anything, but a LCP doesn't really require a local switch which causes a problem when home running to LCP, Maybe you can add another option such as "connect device to a LCP switch group" which would not require a switch and we could circuit that group to our own LCP panel. Then you will let us Home run that back from a device with the homerun having a switched circuit to it? At least we would have a way of grouping devices that are controlled by a LCP and would be a tremendous help to me. Using non-printing dummy switches works, but creates a bunch of clutter and coordination issues.

      • donw commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        With the advent of the 2012 IECC, tickmarks have gotten so complex (with daylight harvesting controls, etc.) that I've simply given up on them. My lighting plans now only have ticks on homeruns. I use notes to require unswitched conductors for em fixtures, etc.

      • Bryant commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        In response to donw comment below, I have to put in a dummy switch that is on a special non-print layer so that my home run will show the switching. However, I like you have found no solution to show the homerun as a switch and just hope the contractor is smart enough to figure it out.

      • Bryant commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Maybe a new device type (Contactor Module?) that has the same number of inputs as output with an option for one input and multiple outputs. The module would be MLO or Breaker input and all outputs would be able to have multiple load types circuited to it without a breaker. You would also need to give an option for a pre and post circuit label name so module 5 circuit 6 would show up in the schedule or one-line as z125b (a way of assigning zone schemes). Then you would make it so that each input to the module could be linked to the output breaker from another device (in case you are doing a simple lighting relay contactor). The other option would be if the module is installed inside a lighting control panel in which you would be able to link a module to either one breaker/lug or each input to a breaker/lug. This panel would also be able to have assigned to it a single circuit breaker for power and could be identified on the one-line drawing. The panel schedule when printed would be like a standard panel schedule except that it will identified a module and circuit/zone label. The one-line would be able to show a module/contactor for each circuit and output. Plus the panel would need to show the circuit powering it. I would think we could use this with some cad modifications to create a data one-line and possibly a fire alarm system.

      • Solomon Williams commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        This would be a wonderful feature. Right now, we put a piece of text 'VIA LCP' next to the homerun text, then draw all of the LCP detail manually. This would be a great feature, as it is easy to recircuit some devices and forget to change the LCP diagram to match.

      • Zach Rohlfs commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        You can create a layer in DM to do this and call it layer whatever your heart desires.

        It is under DM Electrical -> Customization -> Layers

      • Nick Lisin commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Create low voltage switching devices that can be connected and circuited on their own layer. Such as LV occupancy and photo controls circuited to Power packs and step dimming ballasts in fixtures

      • Sam Hammer commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Need dimming panel and schedule. Not the same as relay panel. Would include space for assignment of control channels and dimmer sizes.

      • donw commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Particularly, the ability to handle tickmarks correctly when there are switches on the load side of relays and unswitched conductors supplying emergency lighting.

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